Sent: 2/14/2009 11:29:53 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
Subj: Fwd: This is incorrect–Part 1–Mr. Collins you are utterly incorrect
Sent: 2/14/2009 11:14:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
Subj: This is incorrect
When the modern Jewish nation was named in 1948, they named it not after their own tribal name of Judah, but rather after the ancient land of Israel (which was shared by the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah). However, in biblical prophecies, the term â€œIsraelâ€ refers to prophecies about the latter-day descendants of the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, not the Jews! This confusion of terms has led modern Christians to
Marion, what this so called Christian scholar is saying above is utterly misleading, and false. In fact, it is not Scriptural at all. Thoughout Scripture, the term Israel always designated all of the Jewish people and the land promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and their descendants. Remember, the name change from Jacob, was “Israel”, and Jacob was the father and progenitor of all 12 tribes, which of course included Judah. Also, when the Northern kingdom ceased to exist after the Assyrian invasion, did the Southern kingdom cease to believe they were part of “Israel” and start calling themselves Jews? No of course not, that is patently ridiculous, and I know Marion, from all of your study, that you know better than that. Perhaps the most famous Scriptural prayer, declaration, and principle of Judaism is the Shema, from Dueteronomy. “Hear, O, Israel the L-rd our G-d, the L-rd is One”. The designation “Israel” refers to all twelve tribes, including Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. Current day “Jews” are descended from these three tribes, and not just Judah. What about the term and designation “Jew”? True it came to refer to the body of existing people known to believe and practice the laws and principles of the Torah. However, the term “Jew” was applied originally to these people, not by Hebrew people, but by their gentile conquerors, i.e the Babylonians and Persians. The first time the term “Jew” is even found in Scripture, is in the book of Daniel, a later book of Scripture written after the people in the Southern regions of Israel had been conquered and carried off into Exile by the Babylonians. Those people did in fact accept, even embrace that designation, but it was only after it was coined by gentiles for their own purposes and pragmatic applications. Don’t forget, all peoples live in the “here and now”. We can not expect gentiles, nor could gentiles even care about being historically accurate regarding the people of Israel whom they conquered. I have told you time and time again, who represents America, and the West generally, which does in fact have a specific application to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac, but not to Jacob. Do you even remember what I taught you, or is this what my mom always said, “it went in one ear and out the other”? LOL, LOL Christian Expositors, whether they be laymen or Phd’s refuse to even consider the Jewish Exposition, i.e from the oral Torah, which is 100% binding on Judaism, and that is why an 8 year old Jewish child attending a full time Yeshiva or orthodox Jewish Day School, understands prophecy to a far greater extent than a Christian PHd. I have found only one Christian exception to this rule. He is an MD and a Biblical researcher whose name is Dr. Robert Mock. Dr. Mocks website is BibleSearchers.com. Of course, the authentic gentile biblical practitioners, the B’nai Noah, do in fact embrace the Jewish (Torah) perspective.
Your comments indicate a deep confusion about the difference between the terms “Judah” and “Israel” in describing two different groups of people who both descended from Jacob. Genesis 48 foretold that the name “Israel” (Jacob’s later name) would be placed on the two tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. It did not prophecy the name “Israel” would be placed on the tribe of Judah. This came to pass in later biblical times. The famous “Shema Israel” quote you mentioned is found in Deuteronomy 6:4 and dates to circa 1410 BC, long before Israel and Judah divided into two separate groups. All the tribes of Israel have descended from Jacob (later named “Israel”), but the names of Israel and Judah had already come to describe different peoples by time of King David.
II Samuel 5:4-5 records that David reigned over “Judah” for seven years before he reigned over the other tribes (called “Israel”). In II Samuel 24:1 David took a census of the two different groupings of Israelite tribes in his kingdom which were known as “Israel” and “Judah.” Soon after Solomon’s death, the northern ten tribes split off from the southern tribes. The northern kingdom of the ten tribes was called “Israel” because it was led by Ephraim and Manasseh (so it had the name “Israel” Divinely stamped on them). The southern kingdom (of three tribes) became known as “Judah” because it was led by the tribe of Judah. This is clearly stated in I Kings 12:16-21.
You stated that Daniel is the first time that the word “Jew” is mentioned in the Bible. If you check a concordance, you will see it is mentioned scores of times prior to that. For example, II Kings 16:6, records that “the Jews” of Judah were at war against “Israel” during the divided kingdom period (which was long before the time of Daniel). Israel went into captivity and/or exile by the time of the fall of Samaria circa 721 BC. A portion of “Judah” remained in the old Promised Land until circa 576 BC, as I Kings 17:18 confirms. Daniel’s prayer in Daniel 9:7 records that Daniel later referred to Israel and Judah as separate entities even during the exile.
Moving forward into the latter days, Jeremiah 30:3 refers to Israel and Judah as separate entities even in the latter days. When one sees the terms “Israel” and “Judah” in latter-day prophecies, the Jeremiah 30 prophecy confirms that we must look for different groups of Israelite tribes bearing those names among the modern nations to understand those respective prophecies.
I hope this makes the terminology clear to you. The scriptures are consistent on this point, but there has been so much confusion about this subject in modern times that many people have trouble understanding the difference between the terms “Israel” and “Judah.”